Each gun likes it's own brand of sabot,,,

Randyd/wNY

The Users of Doug's Savage Muzzleloading Message Board have found that as far as sabots are concerned, no two Savage ML's are the same. We have found that some have had luck with other brands but the majority of us uses, Hornady (black) and MMP (black) Sabots.

Each gun likes it's own brand for some reason. It's not uncommon for one Savage 10ML's load to work well with MMP (or Hornady) and not with Hornady (or MMP). If your having sabot problems, you might just want to try the other.

Image provided by Stinkeypete

MMP Sabots

Text provided by Stinkeypete

Muzzleload Magnum Products (MMP) "Color Code Black" 50 Cal. .45 Cal. bullet RR 6, Harrison Arkansas, 72601 telephone (870) 741-5019. This sabot is recomended by the factory- it is the "gold standard" by which other sabots are measured by, as reported by many happy shooters. However, in a few cases better results have been reported with Harvestor or Hornady sabots. It may depend on the tolerances, bullets and loads in your individual gun. Dimensions: note- it's hard to measure thin, flexible plastic accurately. Length: 0.780" long, Base Outside Diameter: 0.497", Interior Diameter: 0.451"- an XTP expands the sabot's O.D. The skirt is very stiff, the underside is the shape of a truncated cone. MMP manufactures most of the sabots on the market, although the designs of the sabots are proprietary to the distributing company.

Harvestor Sabots

Text provided by Stinkeypete

Harvestor # H5045B Black 50 Cal. 45 Cal. Bullet C&D Special Products, Hopkinsville Ky, 42240 telephone 1-800-922-6287 On handling, one immediately feels this sabot is thicker and stiffer than the MMP. Length: 0.860" long, Base Outside Diameter: 0.498", Interior Diameter: 0.452"- an XTP slips right in. The skirt is very, very stiff, the underside is the shape of a truncated cone- deeper than the MMP, with a tiny nipple (from molding?) in the center. While the MMP's skirt tapers to a sharp trailing edge, the Harvestor's skirt taper ceases at 0.05" thick.

Hornady Sabots

Text provided by Stinkeypete

Hornady #6751 Black 50 Cal. .45 Cal ( .452 240 XTP Mag and .452 300 XTP Mag bullets recommended by Hornady.) Hornady Manufacturing Co. P.O. Box 1848, Grand Island NE, 68802 telephone 1-800-338-3220 The 0.970" inch length is the most obvious feature of this sabot- two round balls fit inside the fingers. Base Outside Diameter: 0.498", Interior Diameter: 0.452"- an XTP slips right in, a .451" round ball falls right out. The skirt is very stiff, it feels about like the MMP. The underside has a 3 step taper, ceasing at 0.05" thick.

Knight Sabots

Text provided by Stinkeypete

Knight #900128 Black 50 Cal. .45 Cal P.O. Box 130, 21852 Hwy J46, Centerville Ia, 52544 telephone (515) 856-2626 This sabot does not stand up to the pressures of a Savage factory load- petals rip, and accuracy suffers significantly. The sabot is softer and thinner than the MMP. Length: 0.860" long, Base Outside Diameter: 0.500", Interior Diameter: 0.451"- an XTP expands the sabot's O.D. The skirt is flexible to finger pressure. Like the MMP, the underside is the shape of a truncated cone, tapering to a sharp trailing edge. This edge is so thin that it is translucent when held up to a bright light. The lighter construction of this sabot may be an advantage for plinking or small game loads- this is an untested speculation.

Observations concerning Sabot Problems

Posted on Doug's Savage Muzzleloading Message Board by: 1SHOT-1KILL 12/16/2001 Images by 1SHOT-1KILL 03/13/2003

I have noticed in a number of post, the problems some have been having with sabots. The sabots, any sabot, is the weak link in the 10ML. Some sabots seem to work better than others and most high pressure sabots will perform to some degree of satisfaction, if the shooting techniques are designed to take optimum care of the sabot.

The primary way to take care of the sabots, is to not rapid fire a group. If the outdoor temps are 60+ plus degrees, allow maybe 5 minutes between shots. This allows the barrel to return to a cool state before the next load is loaded. If the temps are higher, then more time may be needed for the barrel to cool. Only when the temps are in the 30-40 degree range can you rapid fire a shot group with any degree accuracy. Even then I take my time when loading the next load.

Also, when the temps are 60+ degrees, the barrel is only going to cool down to that temp. I have found that even with allowing the barrel to cool, I still have to back off the powder charge a few grains, say with XMP-5744, from 45 to 41-42 grains to keep from blowing the sabots. This is especially true when temps are in the 80 degree range.

When you ram a sabots down a warm or hot bore, the sabots heats quickly and becomes soft and pliable. When the sabots are soft and pliable, they will not withstand the high pressure and velocities created by smokeless powders. I have even blown sabots rapid firing shots with 150 grains of PYRODEX.

Another way to take care of the sabots is, if it is a warm sunny day, keep them out of the direct sun. Solar heating the black sabots also warms them up enough to become soft and pliable.

A good indication of that you are taking care of the sabots are, when they are completely intact, with no fingers or petals are missing and the fingers are all spread out like a four petal daisy, and the base not burnt through. When this occurs the sabot will separate from the bullet very quickly and should be about 12 feet from muzzle. If the sabot does not open quickly it will ride the bullet a little further and disrupt the bullet's flight. These sabots will be 20-25" from muzzle. This is usually an indication of a mild load.

Remember take care of the sabots. Sabot evaluation has yet to catch up to the 10ML capabilities. It will, I predict, within the next year. I know that Del Ramsy of MMP is working with Savage's muzzleloading R&D guru, Toby Bridges, on this matter.

The "Double Sabot" method.

Posted on Doug's Savage Muzzleloading Message Board by 1-SHOT 1-KILL.

The double sabot loading method is simple once explained. Take one of your sabots, the same ones you use with the bullet, preferably MMP or Hornady high pressure high velocity sabots, and with a razor blade, scissors, or sharp knife, cut the fingers or petals off flush with the top base of the sabot. This will be started in the bore first. Then take a wool wad, like a Wonder Wad, and start it on top of the sabot base you started first. Then take your normal sabot with bullet, start it and ram the whole column home. Some people are using 28ga shotgun wad bases instead of a sabot base, with good results. Either will work. For hot loads of Lil Gun, say 52-60 grains, you may need to use the double sabot method. For light and medium loads of Lil Gun, anything less than 52 grains, you should be fine with just the sabot with the bullet. Only shooting will tell whether you need to use the double sabot method, though. If the sabots are missing fingers or petal and/or the base is burnt or distorted, then you may need to use the double sabot method.

wait,,, There's more!

"Double Sabot" Loading Method

By mike3132

This loading method was developed by Toby Bridges and 1 Shot –1 Kill. Several of us have improvised on their idea. This loading method lets you use more powder and shoot .44 caliber bullets that other wise wouldn’t work consistently in the Savage because of single sabot failure, loss of pressure. This has worked for several others and me. DO THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK AS THESE LOADS FAR EXCEED SAVAGE’S RECOMMENDED LOADS FOR THE 10 ML.

This is how its done;

1. Use Lil Gun powder, as it is the powder of choice for this method. Use from 50 - 70 grains. (allways start low and work your way up slowly) Don't go above 60 grains of powder with 250 grain or heavier bullets. This method works better with 180 - 220 grain bullets. 60 grns of Lil Gun and 180 grn bullet = 2800fps.

2. Use the base wad of a 28 ga. shotgun wad or the base of a Hornady .451 high-pressure sabot. Cut the wad column off the 28 ga. wad and just use the base. If using the Hornady sabot, cut off the 4 petals and use just the base. 28 ga. bases seem to work better because they fit tighter. (MMP sabots will work well for this also)

3. Use two lubed bore button or wool wads. Like Remington Bore Buttons, Ox-Yoke Wonder Wads, or any other lubed wool wads.

4. Use the bullet/sabot of you choice. (see #1)

5. Use a CCI 209 Mag or Federal 209 A primers.

This is the loading procedure; powder, 28ga wad; two bore buttons, bullet/sabot.

I have tested loads of 180 grn bullets and 70grns of Lil Gun. These loads chronographed at just over 3000 fps. I advise anyone to not go over 70 grns of Lil Gun.

PLEASE DO NOT TRY THIS UNLESS YOU ARE COMFORTABLE WITH DOING SO!